Religions needs to be updated.

Overlay religions and modern tenets are required which can not not leave numerous interpretations to be fed to innocent minds and leave them polluted for life. This stands true for all religions.

The logistics you mention has many answers. That is what I call preparedness to fight suicidal squads. They were not like Mumbai underworld. They came with mission to kill maximum number of innocents and spread terror and succeeded. They were definitely supported locally.There do exist many Jaichands today in this population of more than a billion.

Other questions have larger issues to address. Why does not ethical and true people do not enter politics? We need to understand that we are ruled by inherently inefficient and corrupt governments. Why do we elect same people regularly ? How can be the masses educated that their mandate elect right representatives.

Why does the old and rotten system of recruiting babus continue in our bureucracy?

But yes, we need to ask these questions and seek their answers. Just for the reason that I live in a developing country shall not compromise my quality of life (more correctly ,right to live. Unless we seek answers and accountability, the political and beuraucratic system will continue with same inertia.

Dear Gyatri, if you want a solution and not just repetition, please, take a deep breath and read this:
http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2008/11/i_take_a_vow.html

Maybe not today, but as soon as possible- believe this is the solution, return to it and see it work. Thank you.

I take a vow..

Ha ha..

How many read this blog which is a mix of spirituality with bollywood undertones.

Someone is so horrified about Taj is burning, some is promoting Obama to intervene. Taj is already a dead buliding ages old. If we need to mourn,let us mourn the young and living people who we lost, instead of some dead monument from past memories.

So who is going to read the vow and remember the list of them. Humanity does not work on vows. It works on stomachs with enough food in them and then compassionate upbringing , education, culture.

Aurora congratulations. If everyone taked the vow, many of the worlds problems would vanish. Do not let any sarcastic monkey make you feel like this is is hopeless. It´s not.

Gayatri you asked great questions and you have support from many in the west. Hold the leaders accountable! Get in their faces, don't allow them to hide under their crushing beauracracy. Their needs to be outrage and major finger pointing. At the Jewish Chabad Center in Mumbai, the lives a young Rabbi and his wife are still unaccounted for at the Nariman House. The world is watching Gayatri, we will not "stand idly by the blood of others" to quote the Old Testament.

Ask and keep asking questions and encourage everyone you know to do the same, one can even take a "vow" and still ask hard questions.

Praying for the welfare of Mumbai and India.

Steve

Dear Gayatri,

Thanks for your last three posts, the one with the vow and the other two. I have read them all.

I hear you, loud and clear.

As an outsider, having experienced both 9/11 and now 11/19 so to speak from a distance, I can fully understand how you must feel, yet I think for India there is a profound lesson to learn from the past 8 years after 9/11 as they have developed in the U.S.

It is terrible what happened and I believe every disaster whether natural, whether a war or whether a terrorists’ attack, such violence goes beyond comprehension.

You are right that government has to take more responsibility but at the same time it takes the awareness and responsibility of every Indian citizen to practice democracy in the way it is intended to be.

I have read somewhere that within short there will be elections in your country for a new government. Well then, like has happened in the US, Indian citizens perhaps now have learnt a lesson they are not likely to forget very soon and if they are sensible they will do everything that is in their power to mobilize the Indian community to vote accompanied by the reason why they have to vote with their full consciousness this time.

As I remember same situation, albeit in another ‘entourage’, has happened last year in Pakistan.

Perhaps lessons from that past year can also be drawn in India.

Well, just a few sincere ramblings coming from the heartphone in the hope they may be helpful to this discussion.

I'll only try to answer question 1.

But sometimes they say a picture is worth a thousand words, so this might explain your question.

http://there-is-only-one-islam.blogspot.com/2005/08/islam-conflicts-around-world.html

Strict Muslim culture is rigid, compared with most other cultures. If other cultures had similar rigid rules, Muslim culture would feel a pressure coming in at it from other cultures, that would counterbalance its own outward-pushing pressure.

Strict Mulsim cultural tradition splits humanity off from natural open sexuality, which includes being able to regularly see the human body, face and eyes; casual daily expression of love for, and receiving love from, women; the ability to leverage commerce by borrowing and lending token of value such as money and credit; relaxing by drinking intoxicating drinks; enjoying and participating in theatrical and dance performances.

Strict Muslim culture exalts war and battle-readiness, and assumes all non-Muslims to be potential enemies.

Because of non-leveraged commerce, and because Muslim religions are often practiced in lands which are not as fertile as other lands, there are economic disparities between Muslim economies and those of the rest of the world, which put Muslim countries and populations at odds with others, fostering resentment, frustration and anger. When there are high rates of unemployment, too, young men with nothing to do have nowhere to vent their anger, their culture supports a warlike attitude, and there's no one to soften their hearts.

Fundamentalist Muslim groups work very hard, using coercive communications and brutal force to keep liberalizing influences out of their regions. They make this effort because they know if the rules and economies in their regions were liberalized enough, the young men they currently are able to recruit would otherwise be working, partying, hanging out with mothers, aunts, female cousins, female friends and girlfriends, and marrying whomever they wished whenever they wished it. And if that were the case, Muslim fundamentalists would rarely find anyone angry and hard-hearted enough to act suicidally or murderously.

Shock and Awe!

It came straight into our living rooms gain, live and in color. This time from India. We are all too familiar with this recurring movie, we saw it originate from a train station in Spain, the tube in England and many other places around the world. But the mother of all awes was 911 from New York. The reaction is always predictable, especially from different heads of states, ‘these are inhumane acts perpetrated by cowards’ they proclaim.

Well, are they? Were they?

If we could get inside the heads of some of these ‘terrorists’ wouldn’t we see a picture rather different from the one we are painting in our own brain? Isn’t it possible that some of these ‘cowards’ are actually willing to give their lives for what they perceive as a noble and just cause?

And what about invading a country under false pretences, like the possession of weapons of mass destruction, or a connection to the twin tower destruction?

How about, like Deepak says, dropping bombs from high altitude without knowing for sure that they are going to hit the intended target. What if they kill innocent women and children? What about pushing a button to release a cruise missile only to find out that the target coordinates were wrong and the missile hit a wedding procession?

Is it as simple as calling that ‘collateral damage’, while all others are ‘cowardly, despicable acts’? Don’t suicide bombers believe they are going straight to heaven and that they are doing something that their God wants them to do? Didn’t President Bush invade Iraq because his Christian God told him to do so?

If so, what would you call the American President then? A person of faith or a lunatic?

Dubai is a great example of all the great things Muslims could offer. Right, you must be married to stay together in hotels, and they are very strict on many issues, but I wish other Muslims followed their example on the importance of building rather than destroying. Muslims made great contributions to mathematics in the past, and we owe a great deal of our renaissance to their contact with the Italians.

It´s just sad that let their civilization get into the mess it´s now.

And what shall I call some jokers with no background in understanding India or South Asia to be specific; seeking religious transformations on the blog sites, commenting to solve the problems by vows..lol. if you are an italian, first take a vow to speak a single sentence with using abusive words then come to this table.

And what shall I call some jokers with no background in understanding India or South Asia to be specific; commenting to solve the problems by vows..lol. if you are an italian, first take a vow to speak a single sentence with using abusive words then come to this table.

Rafael,

thank you for your kindness, and be assured that I know that peace is the way.

Anurag,

I fully agree that the stomach must be full and we need compassionate upbringing, education and culture. Thank you for pointing that out. Still- if you think about it, we need a peaceful heart to give compassion, create inspired art, or offer respectful and incusive education to our children. We have to choose peace before we have something of real value to give.

Steve,

I agree that questions have to be asked, and very tough ones. But they have to be the right questions. Anger can never do that, only clarity can. An angry person is not in clarity, he or she is blinded by fiery emotions, which have never united and have always reinforced the conflicts we keep feeding and suffering. Fingerpointing is most often a way to escape the clear glance of one's own conscience. We all have to ask ourselves the questions before we can ask anyone else. You know... "let the one without sin be the first to throw the rock". If we could respect this one sentence, madness would stop.

Rafael,

thank you for your kindness, and be assured that I know that peace is the way.

Anurag,

I fully agree that the stomach must be full and we need compassionate upbringing, education and culture. Thank you for pointing that out. Still- if you think about it, we need a peaceful heart to give compassion, create inspired art, or offer respectful and incusive education to our children. We have to choose peace before we have something of real value to give.

Steve,

I agree that questions have to be asked, and very tough ones. But they have to be the right questions. Anger can never do that, only clarity can. An angry person is not in clarity, he or she is blinded by fiery emotions, which have never united and have always reinforced the conflicts we keep feeding and suffering. Fingerpointing is most often a way to escape the clear glance of one's own conscience. We all have to ask ourselves the questions before we can ask anyone else. You know... "let the one without sin be the first to throw the rock". If we could respect this one sentence, madness would stop.

Isn’t it possible that some of these ‘cowards’ are actually willing to give their lives for what they perceive as a noble and just cause?

No, I hope they go straight to hell

Please Aurora give me the space to be angry, very angry at this time. It's very clear to me what's going on. It's time for the Indian government to be held accountable, it can't have it both ways, a poor hapless third world country that is a pawn and victim of outside global influences and at the same time huff and puff and proclaim India, the new superpower of the 21st. century.

figure out who you are and if it's the grand new emerging shiny India, then act like it and do something about the 175 terrorist orgs that has infected your country. NOW!

#10

Offensive words ? You laugh at people´s spirituality and I am the one with the
offensive words ?

As for spiritual religious seeking in the Internet, I know many Muslims think technology brings them to hell, just remember that you have a print of the Quoran because someone invented something called A PRESS, and to this day many people seek spiritual evolution using this technology.

As for the "lack of understanding in south asian conflicts", in the west we call this
the "the ad hominem" fallacy". You are attacking me, rather than my arguments. I know it´s hard for you, it takes something called a brain, and debates are something your culture discourages(you´d rather cut people´s tongue, it´s much simpler).

In case you haven't kept up with the news, Christian Fritz, the US got rid of Bush and his ilk, in large part because we hate what he (and they) did to other countries. Bush broke faith with the American people, and the rest of the world.

This is not a matter of personal belief, it is a matter of ethics (and compassion). Just because someone believes they're doing the right thing, they are not yet justified their actions. Those to whom the thing is to be done also have to agree that it is the right thing, and they cannot have been coerced to agreement, either. Virtually everyone around the world condemns the Colaba attacks, and other acts of terrorism and war.

Steve, friend, be angry, as angry as you need to be... of course you need to be angry if there is anger in your heart. Of course I understand. If you think and feel anger, you can still see to it that you don't act from anger, that you release your anger in some non-harming way, until you can come from a more clear place. We need to help each other with this, it isn't easy, but maybe it's easier for us than it is for many others. Please tell me about your anger if you need to, I will listen and understand. But maybe others aren't in a shape that can tackle anger or accusations in a constructive way at a moment when their world is falling apart.

Many Islamic civilizations were warlike. They were conquerors and rulers of other countries for centuries, until the conquered fought back successfully. War is about the breaking down of things, or destructiveness. Until leaders in the Muslim world can direct their people away from old traditions, you will not see consistent building.

- - -

India has some of the world's oldest unbroken cultural and social traditions. One of India's most shining achievements is creating a peaceful environment for daily life, for most people in one of the most populated (and continually so) regions of this planet. Acts like the attacks are so heinous not only because of the loss of life and disruption of normal living, but also because they are completely counter to India's long tradition of peaceful living. People who usually live peacefully and non-confrontationally do not quickly adapt to an aggressive defense approach.

Few people will sympathize with these attacks or try to justify them, but should we not try to find out why they are committed in the first place? We may have gotten red of Bush but didn’t “Mr. More of the same McCain” get 45.8 % of the popular vote? That is hardly a sign that everyone condemns war.

It would be nice if we all took a deep breath and not see things as either black or white or ask for others to rot in hell. In the past, Heather, you showed some real interest in the human brain and why we humans do what we do, hopefully you will continue that. It is only by understanding the human species as a whole that we have a chance of ever getting along.

What can we lose by trying?

“Until leaders in the Muslim world can direct their people away from old traditions, you will not see consistent building”.
HQ

“Faith is powerful enough to immunize people against all appeals to pity, to forgiveness, to decent human feelings. It even immunizes them against fear, if they honestly believe that a martyr's death will send them straight to heaven”.
RD in ‘The Selfish Gene’

Dear Aurora,
If every one takes a vow of non-violence then there would be perfect peace. I agree. Only difficulty is: who will go and convince those terrorists to take the vow. Will you do it? Are you confident that you can convince them? If so, then we already have the solution. If you simply mean that somebody should talk to them or that somebody should transform them, history shows there have been some great leaders who did try peaceful means. Mahatma Gandhi insisted upon Hindus not to react when Muslims committed attrocities. Out of respect for him, many of them exercised restraint. But it did not work. Some Hindus got so frustrated that one of them went ahead and assasinated Gandhi. Well, that was not a solution; the killer got his punishment but still that was not a solution. Turning the other cheek works sometimes; at other times evil may need to fought with force but at no time should evil be accepted or tolerated. Killing unarmed civilians for no reason is evil; there is no justification for it.

Question for Rafael:

Does taking vow would have saved 6 millions Jews during World War II or saved the lives of other 50 Million lives.

Non-violence works only when the other party is compasionate and has moral character.

This is proved again by recent declaration by His Holyness Dalai Lama that he has failed in pursuing his struggle using middle path.

I agress with Dr.Chopra that we need to engage and talk to these extremists. But I also want Indian Govt. to follow what Lord Krishna did while dealing with Kauravas in Mahabharatha. He talked, appeased and finally when nothing worked asked Panadvas to wage war.

Thanks Aurora, I just posted some more sobering thoughts on Gotham's post. My nephew is a Chabad Emmissary in the same vain as Rabbi and Mrs. Holtzberg who were murdered in Mumbai at the Nariman House this week, so this hits home for me and of course I fear for him, his wife and 3 adorable children as all they want to do is help his fellow Jews, providing some comfort and home away from home. Aurora, to be perfectly honest and frank I believe we are in a war, perhaps not in a traditional sense but to me it's a war. I know you and others don't like to hear that term and I understand your intent, and believe me I do want peace, I pray for peace but justice as well.

That's all I can share at this time Aurora, thanks for giving me the space to share.

Steve

Dear Syamala,

Nobody can convince anyone about anything if you think about it. Conviction comes from experience. So no, it is not about convincing "them" to be peaceful. It is first about one's own perception- do I see "them" as something other than me... or am I experiencially aware that we are one? If I -know- myself as one with "them", then violence is impossible, and I say this because violence can be defined as any thought, word or gesture coming from separation. When established in peace, one can still act in ways that might look violent if needed, but that would not be violence, as little as a mother who lovingly holds her child about to run out in the street would be violent. One would take care of confused and hurt people, not punish or crave revenge.

Imitating peaceful behaviour doesn't work in the long run, actually it doesn't work at all. Can you tell when someone is civil but boils with hate inside? So can I...

The good news is that today, a lot of people have done their inner work and have touched on the realm of peace inside. This vow is simply a final decision to surrender to spirit, which has in many become more real than any surface.

Still, a lot of people believe that spirit is powerless or weak, and this is really because they don't know it deeply enough yet or haven't trusted it enough to watch it work its wonders. When spirit is awake in one person, it looks straight to spirit in the other person- and this is the fastest way to awaken more spirit.

So yes, we should talk to every possible "them", and do it from the point in our heart where we are one and not two in conflict. Learn to know about their view, their hurt, their anger, who they believe themselves to be and whom they project their anger on. Listen and watch from the peaceful point in the heart. Keep awakening the spirit under all the stories of pain. Then peace has a chance to happen.

Oh Steve, I knew you were worried. I'm so sorry to hear about your nephew and his family. And I fully understand your feelings, you love your family and see their innocence and good intentions.

And don't be cautious about using the word war- that is exactly what is happening in our world, I too have eyes to see of course. But it is right now, when it is most difficult to find peace, when we need to find it. You pray for peace with all your heart, for the sake of everyone you love, and my heart prays too. Peace is not so difficult to find in your heart if you just understand that all it requires is that we make our family larger than we are used to. Include even the "other". If you could hear and see the children of the "other side" cry... you'd know we are six billion people in this suffering together. It is very hard and corageous to let go of one's anger... then we must feel our pain fully, and even see the other's pain.

Steve, one step at a time. Our prayer is a prayer to ourselves. Much love, aurora

Dear Aurora,
Neither am I talking about anger,or vengence, or even reaction to mischievous acts. What I am talking about is also "When established in peace, one can still act in ways that might look violent if needed, but that would not be violence" as you said. That is, if talking does not help, then the mother does a little spanking. So spanking does bring about "oneness" in this case. It is also human nature that as long as one can get away with mischief, it is that one's ego that comes in the way of "oneness". In the particular case of Islamic extrimists, they are convinced by their faith that killing people of other religions pleases God and that it contributes to their "oneness" wih the Almighty.

Gayatri,

Thanks for your questions. We do need heads to roll! We do need to come together as global citizens and say "Enough!"

How does one reach a gang member? How does one reach a husband on the brink of break down and murder? How does one reach a bully in the school yard? How does one reach one's own internal demons?

We must reach out to those around us. We must show care and compassion. We must get involved and override the negative wave that seems to be on the rise.

And...more than anything we need to broadcast good news...yes even as the walls crumble around us. We need to see the higher road and claim it. Love is the only reality to turn the tide of violence and hate.

Love that requires new systems and programs for the good of the whole and not the good of egos. Love that requires new intelligence so that we can penetrate the network of those who want to kill innocent people.

Love is not passive. Love is active and on the move. Be the change you want to see in the world. That change begins in love...

Trish~~

"who will go and convince those terrorists to take the vow. Will you do it?"

No, Nature will. If everyone except Muslims took the vow, Muslims would be so isolated
and blocked by nature from doing evil(against those who took) that eventually they (if
they really need violence) they would kill each other. And voi-la, no more extremist
Muslims in the world. Violence would take of itself.

"Does taking vow would have saved 6 millions Jews during World War II or saved the lives of other 50 Million lives."

Yes.

"Non-violence works only when the other party is compassionate and has moral character."

Here´s where you went wrong. Taking the vow(really taking it) takes you out the frequency of violence, and
makes you invisible to people in a state of violence(they are in such a low frequency that
your vibration makes you invisible to them).

I don´t really believe in innocent victims I am sorry.KArma and natural law won´t allow me.
Either the people who are "victims" have woven a bad karma around themselves, or their
parents have, and they haven´t yet destroyed it.

The Karma principle simply states that every action has consequences. Some consequences occur immediately and some occur later how much later, varies. We usually know about the short term consequences and may or may not be able to see the long term consequences. When one person is hurting another, we have no way of knowing whether the aggressor is committing an act whose long term consequences he/she will reap later, or whether the victim is suffering the fruits of his/her past Karma. That is why we are advised (in Hindu religion) to have compassion for the victim in stead of judging that the victim deserves it.

Peace, within, is the first step to healing.

You want to be aggressive, be so, but within to cultivate the compassion towards the aggressor
that AuroraC is talking about.

Be aggressive in reaching that state of consciousness
where all you experience is Peace.

Dear Syamala,

Anger and vengeance are obvious forms of violence. But there are subtle forms of violence too, which exist as long as meditation is not complete and oneness is not reality.

Seeing evil in someone is such a subtle form of violence. To use the metaphor of a mother's love again, a mother would never see evil in her child, maybe immaturity, irresponsibility, misunderstanding, confusion, etc, but not evil. Evil is born as soon as separation sets in, and we run automatically away and cover our eyes and ears to protect ourselves from what is in us. What we see is what we create, so seeing "the other" as something other than "me" (in this case they are evil while I am good) is what perpetuates the situation for a karmic eternity. Both sides are trapped in this view, and truth is still veiled.

Someone told me this morning that the terrorists had been killed in Mumbai, all of them. So... what do the good people of Mumbai feel, think and do now? Are they content? Do they feel that justice has been done? Do they maybe feel that there is even more justice to be done, more heads to roll? If so... might this scene be identical with what the terrorists and their families/groups think, feel and do whenever their "righteousness" has been successful?

As long as we see evil... we are trapped in unreality and we continue to perpetuate suffering, unless we keep dismantling the ignorance of our own consciousness. It takes work and honesty and might be the hardest thing any human being will ever do, to accept responsibility for one's own perception.

So many spiritual responses deep into the Karma theory, love, compassion, vibrations etc.

As I understood Gayatri's questions, she is asking about the proactive and reactive responses from the government and security forces with a reason to make necessary changes in physical realm ( on ground realities) so that similar tragedies does not occur in future.

Well talking to the spiritual minds here, Is true spirituality something which can be taught or conveyed by thought and actions, taking vows or reading Deepak Chopra books?

As I understand, all the information on spirituality which can be transferred from one mind to another can only develop a curiosity in a person. Information can not make a person spiritual. One has to experience the nature and compassion, love and so many other great thoughts to become spiritual.

A Vow is something you are doing against your inherent nature. You are forcefully trying to observe a discipline which someone else has experienced. Other wise what is the need of a Vow? One shall be observing the right way of life by one's own nature.

All the religions of the world and their tenets are generally useless as they are just fed to the young minds even before they feel the hunger for this. If a person lives and experiences a religious philosophy, then that is useful to him but every person's experience may differ and every one can have one's own religion. This explains the futility of present day religions.

So the terrorists are the extreme examples, where lot of nonsense is fed to their minds and they have absolutely not experienced any philosophy on their own. One can not wait for them to discover themselves after killing hundreds of precious lives. So the solution calls for practical action.

Dear Anurag,

I think it is very important that spirituality continues to be taught and spoken about, and I think that our children would have a much easier start if they could grow up in an atmosphere where the existence of one's own spiritual core is acknowledged. In my view, this has nothing to do with rules of behaviour, religions and commandments of any kind, but with an understanding of our inner world and the guidance of our own soul.

This said, I agree with you that information will not give anyone the actual experience of spirit. Information can come from more or less light-filled minds, so every soul will have to find the information that suits their journey at the moment.

Speaking about the vow of non violence, I would like to tell you that it is not a vow that anyone takes because Deepak has told us to, at least I haven't :) I'm not smiling, but laughing.... He simply asked us to ask our hearts if the time is ripe. There are millions of people around the world who have done a lot of inner work, and eveyone is now asked to look inside and see if spirit has become real enough to carry us from now on.

This vow is simply a final decision to give one's full allegiance to one's own spirit. It has nothing to do with being nice, or good, and absolutely not phoney. It has to do with what you finally decide is true for you- what your eyes see or what your inner heart sees. It has to do with deciding to affirm your inner vision, speak about it and act from it, and so... see its fruits grow.

Many of us have opened up to spirit to such a degree that spirit wants to gush out into our world now. It is not difficult anymore- ask yourself if the center of your heart is peaceful and loving. If the answer is yes- then you know spirit. Then you simply have to decide if it is time to live from there. Peace is not something we have to force and do against our own nature, it is something we do effortlessly when we have found our true nature.

Oh, and Anurag, the spiritual discussions here are not aloof, but to the point. They are an answer to Gayatri's questions about what can be done to change the violent reality we see. Beyond finding the guilty and letting new heads replace the ones rolling, the deeper answer is that change has to happen in our own consciousness first before it can show itself in the manifested world.

Dear Aurora,
To answer your question:"Someone told me this morning that the terrorists had been killed in Mumbai, all of them. So... what do the good people of Mumbai feel, think and do now? Are they content? Do they feel that justice has been done? Do they maybe feel that there is even more justice to be done, more heads to roll?" No, certainly not. It will take a long time for the people of Mumbai to be healed. Punishing the terrorists will not heal them. (BTW, the adjective "good" above sounds a little circastic, I am sure you did not mean it that way). But, as you say "to make necessary changes in physical realm ( on ground realities) so that similar tragedies does not occur in future," they were killed immediately in self-defence and those who escaped will be pursued to prevent future attacks.
To bring about real healing to the victims and transformation in the violent attitudes of terrorists (let us not call them 'terrorists' any longer and just call them the 'misguided' ones), both the victims and the 'misguided' need spiritual training. We all need spiritual training. But in the physical realm, the 'misguided' ones need a little spanking by spiritually enlightened mothers. When everybody in the world is spiritually enlightened we can remove the word "evil" from the English vocabulary, I agree. Interestingly though, the spiritually wise ones also say that there is no world without duality, there is always good and evil and the struggle between the two in the external world. The 'oneness' is within.

Dear Syamala...

violence is completely interwoven into the fabric of a life in separation, regardless if you happen to call yourself victim or perpetrator. Most people don't even notice it.

One day I realized that while striving to be good, I had considered myself more and more different from those I called bad. So I was violent in a subtle way, by building and reinforcing a wall between myself and those called terrorists, misguided, etc. Their violence was wrong while mine was right or "inexistent".

I couldn't understand that I was deluded. A mind which sees us as separate and in conflict with each other is deluded, and creates pain in our lives, in the same way it creates pain through nightmares at night. I've been under this delusional spell called normality most of my life, except the more and more frequent moments when I felt love, compassion, belonging, gratitude, tenderness, a will to help, to listen, to understand- even in the face of so called "enemies". Those are the moments when our soul speaks from the realm of unity into the realm of perceived separation. Separation is a mirage, and if we know it, it will give us a joyful, colourful life of contrast and excitement. But if we don't know it, it will keep us in a nightmare where we are fighting eternal wars with clenched fists and righteousness.

Real healing is allowing your soul to look right at the soul of the "other" and know there is no difference. That's all. It requires honesty to the core. I don't think any spanking is needed :)

Have a nice weekend!

Aurora,

I think you are much ahead on the path of spiritualism, and I hope, more correctly I trust you that you write from your own experiences. I have just started my spiritual journey but from different perspectives. May be someday we will reach the same place and have congruency of opinions.

Now,so many answers have been offered, but Gayatri is silent, What is her take on these 37 messages? It will be nice to know that.

Dear Aurora,
Well, I think spanking is necessary in this case and that this spanking is similar to the violence in a surgery that a doctor performs on a patient and not based on hatred or ego or separating oneself from the other.
You have a nice weekend.

Rafael :

Do you take medicine when you are sick ? The reason is taking medicine is a form of Violence.
The medicine you take will kill the Bacteria that is attacking your body. Violence is required sometimes to establish Dharma. This is what we Hindus believe. If allies had taken a vow of Non-violence in 1939 do you really believe we would had the intentblog to discuss ?

While we are still on spirituality, I like to share two stories on the subject of how to practise spirituality. One is on taking vows. the other is on "Oneness".
On taking vows (I posted this story about twice before on IB but will do it again because it is relevant):
Once there was a man, let us call him Truth Speaker, who took vow to "speak truth" all the time. One day, he was sitting in a grove and meditating with closed eyes. Suddenly, he heard the sound of running foot steps. On opening his eyes, he saw a scared man running for his life. The man stopped when he saw Truth Speaker and said with a gasping breath “I am being chased by robbers. I am running for my life. I cannot run any more. I will behind the bushes over here. Please do not reveal my where-abouts to anybody”. So saying, the man ran and hid behind the bushes. Truth speaker went back to meditation. A few minutes later, he again heard thundering foot steps of running men and opened his eyes. He saw some armed men. When they saw truth Speaker, they too stopped and said “We are looking for a man whom we saw come this way. Did you see anybody running past you a short while ago? If so, do you know which way he went?” Because Truth Speaker would never tell a lie he pointed to the robbers the bush where the scared man was hiding. The robbers then caught the man and killed him. After some days, Truth Speaker died but was taken to hell instead of to heaven. There, Truth Speaker asked the ruler of hell (a personification of justice according to Hindu Religion) - why he was brought to hell instead of to heaven which he deserved on account of speaking nothing but truth all his life. The ruler of hell replied “You spoke truth alright but by telling a lie you could have saved the life of the man who was being chased by robbers. You did not have a tiny bit of compassion. You were carried away by your arrogant observance of speak-truth vow and your selfishness to go to heaven. That is why you deserve hell.” The point in the story is not at all whether Truth Speaker went to heaven or to hell after death nor whether there is a heaven or hell. The point is a person’s ability to see when to speak truth and when not.

On "Oneness": A spiritual teacher taught his disciple one day that everyone in God's creation is one and the sme as God. The next day on the way to his teacher's place, the disciple came across a parade moving in the opposite direction. An elephant with a rider siting on top, which was in the parade was approaching him. As it came close to the disciple but the man did not yield way to the elephant, the rider on its top asked the disciple to step aside and give way to the elephant. The disciple however did no such thing because he believed sincerely that he and the elephant are one and the same so why move and where to move! The elephant then picked the man up with its trunk and threw him far away. He fell down and got hurt. With difficulty, he picked himself up and slowly reached his teacher. When the teacher saw the wounded man and asked "what happened?", the man said that he got hurt because of following the teaching that he and the elephant are both one and the same God and that God would not hurt God. The teacher then said "the elephant's rider is also God and the same as you; so you should have listened him!"

Hi syamala

Your story reminds me of something I read somewhere and have always remembered.

"Once a virtue recognizes itself, it becomes a vice."

There's a time for everything.

Bonnie

Anurag,
I wish you lots of joy on your journey!

Syamala,

I've been reading your post #38 and I'm not sure if you mean that the people who killed the terrorists have the inner attitude of enlightened mothers gently spanking the misguided for their own good, or the loving dedication of a surgeon removing a tumor for his patient's best... is this what you mean?

Because, even from far away, it seems to me that generally speaking, the inner environment of the people in Mumbai right now is really not that peaceful. So if they are not that compassionate or peaceful in their hearts, are not their acts then the same kind of violence as the one that preceeded and provoked it? Isn't this the one and the same reaction cycle keeping our world as violent as it is?

Are you sure the terrorists were killed without hatred, ego and separation? I mean, in case that is what you were saying... Because if the terrorists were killed out of rage and anger, then... well, then please help me understand the difference between the acts of the terrorists who did their surgery on what they consider evil and the acts of the police (or whomever carried out the task) doing their surgery on what -they- considered evil.

For thousands of years, violence has been committed in the name of good. Ask any nation who has fought a war why they have done it- they will explain in what way they were right to do it. They will explain why the other was a demon, a malignant tumor that had to be removed. They will tell you of all the wounds the demon has inflicted them, and how much their own population has suffered or will suffer if the demon is not removed. They will show you how nobel their pursuit is, how approved their actions by a benign God, book of rules or leader.

I don't know about you... but I don't believe in the efficacy of violence anymore. On the contrary, I have noticed that peace has a power of another kind, peace pours healing love over the gaping wounds of all parts of a conflict. Everyone on this planet has been hurt, many are "tumors" in other people's eyes, all are equal in reasons to continue violence. A vow of peace is a promise to myself to remember to look deeply and see our equal innocence, to see everyone's soul longing for that which we refuse to give ourselves and each other.

Aurora, Syamala, Kadambha, Rafael, Trish, Bonnie, Heath, Ambasteve, Matai....I have a question to you, it deals with spirituality that we have been talking about above.

Considering that everyone of us are a part of universal One and everyone has got Sinner and Virtuous with in at the same time,where do we draw a line? When do we say that terrorist has to be killed, caught and tried, reformed or set free?

Your answers will provide more insight and understanding. Thanks

Hi Anurag, thank you for your question. I don't know if my answer will get through, I see it's difficult for me today to sign in. But I'll give it a try.

Yes, as you say, Sinner and Virtuous are within us all. It is an inner reality we project on our outside manifested world. The reality is in here before it is out there.

Where do we draw the line?

As long as we see things this way, we do need to draw the line, and will do it wherever we can- some will draw it at killing, some at setting free, some in between somewhere. But the work we need to do is to reconcile these two sides of our being, within us. That means doing the inner work of recognizing that we have a shadow side, understanding that it is not evil but skewed, that we don't need to fight it or run away from it but to listen, understand, heal and incorporate it into our being.

The more we do this inner work, the less we are in conflict with our projected shadows out there, being able to genuinely see beyond the monster masks so many of us are wearing. The more we learn to heal our own selves, the more we know what heals and what doesn't heal even out there.

We start to find out that punishing ourselves for our dark impulses will never make them go away. No punishment has ever healed anyone. It is like punishing a flower for growing in a twisted way in its search for the sunlight. We find out that treating ourselves with care, gentleness, understaning, that simply giving ourselves something as rare as attention without judgment will work wonders in healing our inner monsters.

Everything that applies to the inner world can then be applied to the outer world. Some day comes when you understand that you are not and have never been a sinner, and that the same is true for everyone. The sinner has simply been the part of you in conflict with the part of you proclaiming itself a saint. The sinners out there have been the part of you in conflict with the saints in you. The war loses its appeal more and more, its reason, its logic, it becomes uninteresting, false and one day impossible.

So to put it another way, the terrorists are the projected collective shadow of our righteous societies. Collectively, we need to go through the process of embracing our whole self. Until then, the invisible lines drawn by our minds will seem real and needed, and the war will go on.

I would like to know what your view is, if you want to share.

What non-peacefulness was there in Mumbai that drew terrorists to attack its people and institutions several times, over the past few years?

What non-peacefulness has there been in Kashmiri Hindus that has drawn terrorists to attack its people and institutions for the past several decades, and intermittently, prior to that?

What non-peacefulness was there in India that drew Islamic invaders to conquer portions of it, centuries ago?

- - -

Once people start killing others, the only way to stop the killing is to stop the killers. How that is done depends on the killers' weapons and defenses.

One might say the commandos could have sat and meditated to generate thoughts and feelings of peacefulness in the attackers.

But if one thinks that is a good approach, that it will work effectively, one is overlooking the fact that the people who were murdered by the attackers were already peaceful themselves, yet that did not stop the attackers from killing them.

- - -

When a violent person has a knife to the throat of one's own child, should one peacefully allow the violent person to proceed to injure or murder one's child, and then perhaps turn to injure or murder others?

Aren't the people of Mumbai our own mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, cousins and children, matlab aren't we all descended from the same original humans? Don't people deserve protection from those who would steal away their lives and happiness? Don't we owe one another safety, first?

- - -

The question that should be asked, imho, are:

Why were these young men so angry that they joined a jihadist organization and enthusiastically trained to murder people and destroy what people had built up.

Why are jihadists trying to reach beyond their own communities to take away what others have?

How can the inherently peaceful people of India protect themselves from violence, when their very peacefulness and its success in helping many many people survive, is what draws others to want to attack it in the first place, and is also what makes it so difficult to anticipate that others may want to attack it at all?

#43 Dear Anurag, when I confront with a young zealot firing bullets, I will answer that..... it will surprise me, too! There will be no time for lines in that moment, I guess.......

To give a good perspective on who did what to whom in the Mumbai attacks, please check this graphic at the NYTimes:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/11/29/world/29mumbai.graf01.ready.html

(or click my name)

The graphic shows the locations of about 140 of the over 190 people who died in the attacks.

There is no graphic for the hundreds who were injured badly enough to be taken to hospitals.

Also: Most of the deaths and injuries came ***before*** any Indian forces engaged the attackers.

When eyes meet?

Correction to #47: the graphic was made when the NYTimes was counting the deaths at 150+, so it shows the locations of about 100 deaths. The NYT now reports deaths as being 180+, but the graphic has not yet been updated.

News in India reports deaths at 190+ (TOI) deaths and 170+ (HT). The disparity between TOI and HT is due to some deaths being counted twice by authorities, and HT is giving a down-estimate, while TOI is staying with its count. Both sources report that more bodies are likely to be recovered from the Taj site. NYT is slow to update its counts, but has consistently amended them to match those of India's official count.

Too many I's bespeak the ego.

Let eyes be downcast in humbleness and modesty.

One of the most striking photos I saw in the NYTimes recently was of a commando whose eyes showed how that his heart bled at having to do his work at the same time it they showed his commitment. That is love in action, not hatred.

Spirituality is a skill. It can be acquired with practice. That´s my major disagreement
with mystics. It works because of the laws of nature not because some anthropomorphic
being with a long white beard wants it to. HAving said that, Chopra´s books and
texts alone, can´t do much, but if a person practices what´s in them they will develop
their spirituality. It´s mechanical. About "forcefully imposing spirituality", do you think there´s forceful imposition when one solves 100 math problems in order to be good at it ?

In the beginning a person may be thought of as not having any talent for math. After
100 problems solved people would look at him and say "what a talented mathematician!"

Spirituality is the same thing, if you practice you get there, even if you are not
born with spiritual genes.

#30

I am humbled by your comment and will reflect on it.

#35:

"Interestingly though, the spiritually wise ones also say that there is no world without duality, there is always good and evil and the struggle between the two in the external world."

Yeah, but we may all leave evil for animals. And as Shivas, rule them as their Lords.
This duality, I think benefits all humanity.

#38
"Rafael :

Do you take medicine when you are sick ?"

No, I meditate on the sick part of my body until it´s fully restored.

#43

As for me, I learned(through Chopra´s books :) to hear the messages of comfort/discomfort
from my own heart. If the message is comfort I go with confidence, if the message
is that of discomfort I stop and analyze the consequences. I quit trying to make
my "giant book of all rules" when I realized how more simple and effective this was.

PS: What is reading the Bible(or the Quo ran, or the Torah) many times over, if not a form mantra meditation, viz a viz, spiritual practice ? In the beginning it may be unnatural, later it becomes as familiar as breathing.

#30(again)

Assuming the victim hasn´t done anything wrong, and is being incited to take revenge, what if she doesn´t ?

Wouldn´t the victim be forcing(with the Nature) the perpetrator to somehow regret or by some way "nullify" his past action ? This destroys the notion of unchangeable past.

PS: Easier said than done, I always have a hard time doing it.

#30(more thoughts)

Aren´t we responsible for everything the happens to us(even to work out the karma of our parents) ?

If they are enticing us to harm them, aren´t we enticing them to harm us too ?

54, not usually.

The reasons for people striking out don't relate to our current actions, but to past hurts suffered by those striking out. They may chose to strike at someone because they think they can get away with it, or because their anger has overwhelmed them at this time of their life and striking out is all they can do. The moment when violence is acted out has many complex feeds. It's rarely due to something in the person being struck at.

If you want to heal those who are so angry that they are violent, you need to look at what made them angry and find a way to help them face that and grow through it. There is usually a profoundly deep humiliation that they are hiding from, that was not their fault when it happened, and that they were too powerless or too loving (at the time) to stand up to when it happened. The unfairness of the original incident(s) rankle through many years, until the hurt comes out as anger.

No healthy child is born wanting to be violent. A child suffers, and later becomes a violent older child, adolescent and/or adult.

Apparently-repeating patterns of suffering or violence are not due to karma, imo, but to an inability to face the cause of the original suffering, thus it repeats.

I believe in karma in the sense that when we act unfairly towards others, we call a particular kind of attention to ourselves, and others respond by acting unfairly towards us, either at that moment or in the future, or may act unfairly towards those we love, as a pay-back. I don't believe that everything we do and everything that happens to us is because of karma, fate or destiny.

Aurora,
"then please help me understand the difference between the acts of the terrorists who did their surgery on what they consider evil and the acts of the police (or whomever carried out the task) doing their surgery on what -they- considered evil."
If you have not understood this by now, it is because you made up your mind (consciously or subconsciously) not to understand. You see no evil in the minds of the intruders because you could be "one" with them and understand that they are probably frustrated, which by the way, is true. Violence has its roots in frustation. A happy person is not violent. But how come you can see even from far away that "the inner environment of the people of Mumbai is not that peaceful"? You should not see it if you are "one" with them isn't that so? So, your "good" qualifying people of Mumbai was a sarcasm.

If the commandos did not go in risking their own lives and fought the terrorists, 5000 people would have been killed. Their purpose in that operation is to rescue people from being killed and nothing else, no hatred. At that instant, there is no way to transform the hearts of so many intruders by peacful conversation. To keep on insisting that it is possible if only people had good hearts and the intention, is just for the sake of argument. It is not practical. If you are so confident that you can do it, you should demonstrate it. Lead a team and go and talk to all the Islamic terrorists living on the borders of Pakistan and prevent an other attack anywhereelse in the world. The world will be eternally grateful to you for it.

#53: Wouldn´t the victim be forcing(with the Nature) the perpetrator to somehow regret or by some way "nullify" his past action ?
Yes. There have been examples of such transformation brought about by "enlightened" people. Sarada Devi (wife of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa) was once travelling by walk (because of no transportation in those days) from her parents' place to her husband's place some 10 or 15 miles away. On the way, she got very tired and sat down for a while. A stranger came by and they said hello to each other and made a small conversation. He then took her to his house, fed her, let her rest and she continued her journey afterwards. When she described the episode to others after reaching home, they recognized that her host as a well known robber who escaped several times from being caught.

Some people here at IB seem to think they should give advice to others but they may be suspected of hypocrisy.

Maybe there is an honest and sincere explanation to what many perceive as unethical behavior? If there is, please help us understand. After all love for one another should be the guiding force for us all, shouldn’t it?

So please help me with this. Isn’t it one thing to believe in supernatural powers, but quite another to claim to posses them. Shouldn’t money given for such powers be refused and isn’t money charged for “distance healing”, and similar supernatural talents, unethical?

When one proclaims evidence for supernatural and paranormal occurrences shouldn’t that evidence be produce or not be proclaimed at all? Isn’t accepting money for some mystical healing power dishonorable?

If there was a Jesus, did he ever accept a dime for his miracles?

Aurora and others..

My last post on this Ten questions.The original ten questions by Gayatri were more about questioning the logistics on third day of attack, many answers are already available on news media.

Though the ten questions were not so soul searching ,the spiritual interactions have gone deep. I have following to offer.

Spiritualist who go deep inside themselves and try to project the inner understanding to the outside physical world have one essential fault. They use lot of mind and do not follow the nature. The premise of all the thought provided by Aurora is that one shall heal oneself and others, love and compassion shall rule the world. Now this premise is the core of all the arguments.

Let me put the bigger picture going from Outside to inside.

We all are a part of Nature. Nature has created this Earth and the Life. Nature knows only balance and equilibrium , these facts are known and proven. A Lion can procreate less than a deer. So deers are more and lions are less. Lions eats deers. There is a balance. Core of the earth spills hot gases, molten rocks ; more ice melts and the surface gets cold. There is a balance. The physical laws of thermodynamics are about balance.

One famous quote from Arthur C Clarke : "Human judges can show mercy, but against the laws of Nature there is no mercy."

Now humans are also a part of Nature and Nature works to bring balance continuously and doing justice continuously.

Now by law of Karma if justice has to be given then tormentors will become tormented and tormented will become tormentors. All of the karmic cycle talk of yesterday and tomorrow and not about today.

Nature works today and by all means available. Humans are also a means to bring justice and equilibrium. Humans are by default peaceful, loving, playful. A 2 year old child is the best example. A child knows only to love and play. It cries only when his essential needs are not satisfied. It is only when the mind starts knowing the world then the problems start. So nature has given only peace and love as natural behaviour to humans

So, any Natural equilibrium when disturbed, can be and will be corrected by humans to bring equilibrium. There had been many terrible and violent Wars in the past and still peace and love exist with most of the mankind. So the acts of terrorism will be condemned and eliminated by humans as a part of nature and bring stability to the nations and the people.

Dear Syamala,

Good morning and thank you for # 56. We agree on many things. We agree, for example, that violence comes from frustration. I would like to explain something about what I've written before: when I talk about the innocence of everyone, including the "terrorists", I am talking about our core, not about our minds. I am saying that looking at each other from the point where we are equally innocent is looking in truth.

Minds, sadly, have often lost their innocence after so many centuries of violence, and can be very confused. Having forgotten our inherent innocence and kindness, frustration and violence arise. So I agree with you that the "terrorists" must be frustrated, and I was in no way sarcastic saying "good people", but just using some word to refer to the mainstream, accepted societies. There are two parts in every conflict, we could roughly call them the good and the bad.

My point in everything I've tried to say is that the line inbetween good and bad is false, and is the very cause of a war with no chance to ever end. Good and bad will continue to fight for eternity in the manifested world, and unless we can rise above them and see them both as creation of the one mind, as manifestations of something outside both good and bad that is our true identity, peace will never be a reality. And looking around at the state of our planet, I guess we can agree that we could use some peace in people, inbetween people and inbetween people and what we call the environment...

I am sorry if you feel that I'm disrespecting an action that you see as completely necessary and correct. My intention is not disrespect, not intruding and not giving any advice either. I am just speaking as clearly as I can about what I have found out, for anyone who would hear me: that exactly the times when violence shows up are the times to affirm and empower as much peace as we can.

It is consider a normal impulse to contract and close down, to protect oneself and even retaliate in the face of violence. I don't see this as evil, at all. I am just pointing out that this behaviour can only continue the cycle of violence. Peace requires of us something almost impossible to do: stay loving and open and heal our aggressors' pain, which in a united world is our own pain.

You have said- it is not practical. Are you sure? We can't start by trusting that we can stop armed terrorists, I agree. But we can start by trying peace in our own lives, in our daily conflicts, in our interactions with each other. In my own life- peace, trust, openness and love have proven a billion times more powerful than either closing down in fear or retaliating in anger.

I don't know how to lead a team and go talk with Islamic terrorists on the borders of Pakistan, but I speak with everyone I meet, all the time, and I do it from an inner experience of the miraculous power of peace. Looking around, I see more and more people speaking of the same truth that is deep down in us all, that we are all beings of love and peace and that we can trust our own spirit. I recognize that it may sound naive, unpractical, challenging, dangerous and irresponsible, or who knows what ... but this is a sincere sharing of a reality I like so many others know is true. If it resonates with what your deepest heart tells you, you will know. If not, then I sincerely and wholeheartedly wish you the best in pursuing what is true for you now.

# 58, Help me understand,

I don't know who you are addressing, but as I work with distant healing and charge money for it, I could maybe try to help you understand.

You ask: "Isn’t it one thing to believe in supernatural powers, but quite another to claim to posses them."

Yes, I think it is two different things. Believing something means that one doesn't actually know something. When you know something, you know it... no, you don't need to claim it either :) It's like claiming that electricity exists. We don't need to believe it or claim it, electricity exists. It is part of nature, even if maybe not yet known or understood on some place on the planet.

I don't see any powers as supernatural, only as not yet understood. And any powers that are natural belong to all of nature. People are nature, so we have access to everything that is what we are.

You then ask:
"Shouldn’t money given for such powers be refused and isn’t money charged for “distance healing”, and similar supernatural talents, unethical? "

The reason why I charge for my work is the same as why a plumber, a painter, a doctor, a janitor, a head of state or a driving instructor charge for their work. Because I use my time doing what I like to do, what I am good at, and offering my gift to society. It takes time and dedication to improve healing skills, just like in most other professions. Why would I refuse money for my work? this isn't a supernatural talent, healing is a skill every living being has, but many human beings don't know or understand it. My talent is actually in showing others how to access it.

You further ask:
"When one proclaims evidence for supernatural and paranormal occurrences shouldn’t that evidence be produce or not be proclaimed at all? Isn’t accepting money for some mystical healing power dishonorable? "

It would be funny if people kept paying me without evidence that what I'm doing works. It would be funny if I kept doing something that doesn't give results... No, friend, I don't think any person would keep doing any energy work without evidence... atleast I am not one of them :D As with all skills, my results have been less clear in the beginning, but the more I learn, understand and practice, the more clear are my results. Would you like to learn how to do it too? :)

"If there was a Jesus, did he ever accept a dime for his miracles?"
I don't know, do you? I wasn't there, so I couldn't tell you. Everyone has the capacity to heal, so that is no miracle, but maybe not everyone needs to work as a professional guide for other's healing. Jesus' path was of a great healer of souls and a teacher, and he got paid indeed... according to the understanding of his brothers and sisters...

Well, these are my thoughts, I hope they help. Have a great day!

Dear Anurag,

thank you for your thoughts. What I'm saying is that our essence is love. You say that violence is a way of returning to blance. That is an interesting thought, but still, a thought. I hope you keep observing it. Much love to you!

#62 Dear Aurora,
There may be 'terrorists' on this thread!
Look 'em in the eye ;)

Dear Aurora,

Your comment # 60 is very interesting. I will like to write to you more and discuss on this. Can you possibly drop me a mail on onlylovezreal(at)gmail(dot)com

Thanks so much for your insights.

Dawn does not come with our efforts...

Hi Harb,

Yes, dawn comes by itself but after that, it's up to us........?

Mieke

Mieke, not really. It is again as per direction of the basic forces or interactions:

Then like the coming of Dawn on its own we will see the phases of games (childhood), loves/hates/travels (youth), intellectual understanding of things (middle age) and spiritual understanding of things (old age) coming on their own in our whole life, but also, which is more difficult to understand but still can be easily understood if we will know the fractal nature of all life, of our life of a day as well, called our daily biorhythms by some.

All because life process at all levels is always passing through four basic interactions of gravity, electromagnetism, strong force and weak force.

It is Nature at work on its own, to take help from Anurag's post above.

Thanks Harb,

I surrender :)