It is indeed very unfortunate the way people are dying in Gaza or Israel.

More responsibility lies on Israel to involve the rest of Arab world and educate the likes of Hamas/Hezbollah to embrace peace.

Does a little son/daughter of a hamas or israel army soldier know what is the cause and and what is the dispute all about? And whether the price of the solution is worth the lives lost?? They will just remember that their father was killed at the hands of other.Their mind will be poisoned there for rest of their life.

Nothing is more unfortunate than the precious lives lost.

Very rightly said by Gotham about the money that is financing the luxuries of all sorts for a few section of Arab society. Is this way the cause of their brotheren they support? Or there was always a better way to support by financing their rockets and guns?

If not rest of Arab world, Isralis shall themselves take this initiative to further the economic development of Gaza or West bank, so that hamas does not create value out of the poor or hurt minds of Palestinians.

Hi Gotham and Everyone,

The fact that no one dies due to rocket launching by Hamas is really not the point.

Try living in a neighborhood where your neighbors constantly bombard your space, with, whatever, noise, filth, guns, you name it, they do it. They want your property, they want to drive you out, or they just want to tickle their fancy with your frustrated outbursts, and, this, just goes on and on, and, noone has control over them, in order to put a stop to it. You can't afford to move, they do not give a hoot how long it takes or how you respond, they want what they want and nothing less.

I wonder how long it would be before you went stark raving mad? I wonder how long you would be saying just because I can doesn't mean I should.

Really, this conflict is a big yawn, no, not to all the innocent victims, but who cares about the victims really, the UN, the rest of the Arab World, the West, and, since, the victims are mostly under the care and well being of their Hamas leadership it is Hamas who needs to be told.....ah...you are f-ing your people, what? you don''t care that Israeli bombs will mutilate them because of your decisions?

Really, the finger is on Hamas and their total and complete lack of leadership, their total abuse of their own people by their constant attacks on their neighbor, Israel.

Why don't we cut the bull...and lay the blame right where it belongs....on Hamas and don't let up. Insist on their accountability, Insist on the acknowledgement that their citizens suffer more because of their rocket attacks. Insist that they care about the innocent victims in their care. Insist before we offer sympathy anymore.

I hope Barak Obama does not start enabling Hamas, once again. President Bush at least recognized the need to stop enabling them.

have a good day all, ruth

Aw, Ruth, you're blaming the criminal's wife because the cop decided to beat her up to pay back the criminal.

Hamas can do better, yes, but they don't have the resources Israel has, and Israel is therefore in a position to do even better.

And there is a difference between harassment and death.

The Hamas rockets disturb their neighbors' comfort so the neighbors bomb the neighborhood and kill people? Comeon, that can't be right.

Sorry, Heath, Hamas is the criminal, here, not only to Israel but to their own people. The last thing in the world I would do if I were their leader is constantly assult the "big bad foe" who have the means to mutilate my own people, not to mention the children who will suffer because of my decisions.

If you can launch a rocket you can launch "negotiations", you can launch "compromises".......women do it all the time to feed, clothe, house and educate their children.

Hamas is no victim here...I hold them comletely responsible for the sufferings and killings of their own citizens because of the decisions and actions they repeat, uselessly.....you bet they can do better..

we can do better than to enable this situation any longer by constantly offering Hamas their much expected crying towel....

How powerful is Hamas vis-a-vis Israel? Israel can afford to be conciliatory and generous, and it would do wonders for their world image if they were.

This is like the adult using a baseball bat to punish the kids who hang out with the little bullies with the slingshots. The little bullies may be a super annoyance, but they are not directly hurting their own people. The adult is. For the adult to say he can't keep his temper and baseball bat under control because he's so annoyed... it makes him look bad. Here's how the little bullies are hurting their own people: they are putting a fire under the feet of the adult who finds it so hard to be peaceful in the first place. Well, that the adult reacts is under the adult's control. If the adult stops reacting that way, the little bullies will need to grow up themselves, because there won't be any role left for them otherwise. The real enabler here is Israel with its penchant for forceful temporary solutions. If those solutions were effective, Israel would not need to keep using them. So when is it the right time to admit that this approach doesn't work? Now.

If you can launch airstrikes you can launch "negotiations", you can launch "compromises".......women do it all the time to feed, clothe, house and educate their children.

Gotham, that's a great blog with an excellent analysis of the situation.

Any thoughts in the timing of the situation, and the current tensions between India and Pakistan?

sorry heath, you write, "If you can launch airstrikes you can launch "negotiations", you can launch "compromises".......women do it all the time to feed, clothe, house and educate their children"

here, you are talking about Israel, and, yes, they certainly can, but, I repeat, it is the citizens of Gaza who are suffering and being killed by the very conscious choice of their leaders in Hamas who are completely and totally responsible for the care and well-being of THEIR citizens and THEIR citizens children.

There is in reality no argument here between Israel and Hamas....it has nothing to do with Isreal's response and everything to do with Hamas and their very consiouse decision to put their citizens under fire.....uselessly, needlessly, recklessly.

heath you write, "This is like the adult using a baseball bat to punish the kids who hang out with the little bullies with the slingshots"

this is the kind or endless argument that keeps this conflict going and it is just not at all correct, all this kind of argument does is enable, addictive self-destructive behavior, imo.

and Gotham has a fine piece of writing but as far as I am concerned it can't touch my analysis of this situation. As far as I am concerned with my analysis in hand and acted upon the citizens of Gaza would be enjoying the haves...not this have nots by now....

These two countries have been fighting since Biblical times, as they have been at war for thousands of years. It's the longest continuing conflict in the Bible other than that of good and evil.

Gotham's write up seems like a media campaign for the terror monger Arabs. Surprisingly he is even applying the twisted logic of the Arab world by trying to equate the Hamas rocket kills and IDF bomb kills.

""""Should Israel be blamed for these attacks when they forewarned the Palestinians that they would come if Hamas did not cease the rocket attacks they have been launching (to no meaningful affect) for the last few weeks? Yes, they should. Not a single Israeli was seriously hurt by the irritating rocket attacks. Murdering a few hundred Arabs does not seem to be an equitable response. Just because you can does not mean you should. It is not okay to kill children that have no dog in this fight and then just shrug your collective shoulders and say it was not intended."""""

Looking at what you have written gives an understanding of your thought process, which is probably governed by the images of CNN. (where they show children huddled in a bombed out car, what a fantastic pic. Afterall everytime a car is blown the palestenian children never run for safety but pose for pics in the shattered car.)

What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong Mr. Gotham Chopra. You ought to comprehend that.

Suicide bombing of innocents is wrong.
Firing rockets continously for no reason on civilians is wrong. (Hamas does not fire precision guided rockets. Which means that when the rocket is fired they do not know how many or which people it will kill)
If we go by your logic then Israel must wait for its population to get exterminated before launching a deterrence.

How can you call it murder of Arabs. There is no murder in war but casualty and colllateral. The palestenain people very well know what Hamas does and what it stands for. The palestenian people support Hamas which is at war with Israel. You have an entire muslim population in that belt which will exterminate every single citizen of Israel at the first opportinity they get.

Hamas is launching whatever weaponery it has on Israel. Israels response as on date is the only response that is required for radical and fundamuntalist terror forces. I wish India had such strong leadership and decision makers.
Why don't you settle down near the Gaza border in Israel and live the rest of your life in the fear of getting hit by a rocket, not knowing when. I am quite positive, in 6 months flat your perception will change.

Gotham,

When it comes to right and wrong, it must always be very simple and in black & white. For every one and from every POV.

Your declaring Hamas as a low cerebral capacity entity cannot absolve them of their dastardly acts. Well the fact is that this LCCE has been elected to power by the palestenian people. If you understand democracy then you must realise that indirectly the palentenian people have declared war on Israel through their elected representatives. This is a holy war of course....jihad...And since Israel is a hight cerebral capacity civilization the onus and responsibility lies on them. They must allow their citizens to live in constant fear and get murdered. I am sure rockets cost more than food and medicines. Why aren't the Palestenian's demanding Hamas to smuggle food and medicines instead of Rockets?

Right to defend yourself is a fundamuntal right and must be exercised even if you are being attacked by low cerebral capacity rabid dogs like Hamas. The surrounding muslim nations have occupied more palestenian terrority together than Israel. Palestenian's do not have any problem with that. I fully agree that civilian casualities must be avoided at all costs during war, but if civilians allow the enemy to shield itself among them.....it is collateral.

The India Pakistan parallel is very much interesting. India's domestic electoral politics is being dominated by the muslim votebank and appeasement of muslims has almost become the state policy. Punjab terrorism, kashmir terrorism, hundreds of bomb blasts and tens of thousands of inocent lives lost. And of course India' is not getting aggressive and doing the right thing from your POV. Just waiting for another series of blasts and innocent blood to be split on our soil. Mind you this has been happening since three decades.

The radical islamist forces have declared a holy war against almost every non-muslim civilization of this world. And there are no rules in their war, everything goes from beheading of innocents to bombing of children. We have thousands of madrassas spewing venom against India, Israel and the west constantly in this subcontinent, breeding jihadi's. How do we stop this hate breeding machinery of radical Islam is the big question. The global terror structure including Hamas thrives on this religious jihad concept. If we eliminate this concept and take the holiness out of the terrorist acts, perhaps organizations like Hamas and Lashkar e tayyiba might die a natural death.

Hi Gotham,

you write, "Hamas is not equipped with the sort of cerebral capacity to generate great leadership It's like asking an ant to learn astro-physics. Expecting them to forge creative solutions for a long-term peace is an exercise in futility.."
..............imo, I think this is absolutely untrue, and, the fact, that, the world community continually responds to this type of crisis by focusing on Israel's military response and almost completely ignoring the fact that Hamas put their people deliberately in harms way and under fire by their decision to attack Israel, simply, enables them to continue..afterall, a "hamas will be hamas" or a "well, what harm do they really do to Israel?" response, says, they are justified, when, in fact, the harm is and always has been and will continue to be their own people. No, I think the world response should be adamant that it is not Israel who is responsible for the harming it is the leadership of HAMAS.

you write, "If Israel is a paragon of civilization like they often proclaim and their existence as a state is predicated on the generational wrongs their people faced, is it too much to expect them to make the creative leap and contribute to a real solution?.............
imo, the vacuum of leadership for the Palestinians gives Israel an excuse to hold back, and to throw up their hands in a crisis like this and go for broke in their response which is just as useless for them and their citizens as it is detrimental for the Palestinians, but, I am not going to hold them any more responsible for the killings and the sufferings of Hamas's citizens than I do the leadership of the Palestinians, Hamas.

imo, for this crisis to go down a new road the response should be new, also. Without responsible leadership for the Palestinians, a leadership that is more interested in a two state resolve, than a one state past of Hamas's dreams, this will never move, and, yes, Israel, is taking advantage of it, just because Israel is big and powerful doesn't mean it is not scrared sheetless when it comes to opening itself up to the ghost of their past.

The only thing that will eventually change this conflict is a leadership for the Palestinians that is willing to negotiate and compromise for the sake of a people they claim to care about, but, so far, have only proven, to the world, that they are ONLY willing to use as sacrificial lambs.

The Palestinians do have leadership problems but that is not the fault of Isreal. Israel has just been able to use that weakness, as, I believe, any Nation in their position with their particular history would, but, if, the Palestinians, can get themselves over the hump of bad leadership, with the help of a world community's insistance on taking their leadership to task for sacrificing, instead, of caring and protecting, then, Israel, will have no excuse to hold back what they can afford to offer.

As I have said, women do it all the time, as well as, men who are in relationships that are confrontational, conflicting, and difficult but choose paths that insist on negotiation and compromise for the care, protection, and well-being of their loved ones. This happens everyday in all nations, in all cultures. The fact that this confrontational relationship is between two Nations doesn't mean one cannot relate to it's fear, anger, and self-destructive nature...

oh, well....there are men and women among the Palestinians who are completely capable and it is their job to put them forth, not the world communities or Israel's, but we can surely help by not excepting the excuses of the
"rocket launching" addicts who are now inflicting death and suffering on their own citizens by the decisions they consciously make.

have a great day.....ruth

hi everyone,

I just noticed this from an article in the nytimes.com.......

"This weekend, the Palestinian newspaper Al Hayat al Jadida printed a black front page with a headline blaring: “1,000 Martyrs and Wounded in Saturday Slaughter.”

This is the kind of perspective and language that should be absolutely rejected by the world community and deserves an absolute honest response......that there were 1,000 victims of this violence because our leaders decided to end a truce claiming that the truce brought their efforts no benefits.

If, in fact, the truce was for naught, as they say, then it is up to their leaders to bring forth this information before it decides to risk the lives of it's citizens. Israel must also be held accountable, totally and completely, when, a truce is negotiated, they must follow through with benefits....

this is a two way street....it is time the world community holds both party's feet to the fires of accountability or we might as well quit pretending we really care about the killings and the sufferings of the innocent....

gotta run, have a great day....ruth

By overlooking that Israel has money, equipment, labor, supplies, water control, infrastructure, power (both political and energy-wise), and in-place and working social, governmental and political organizations far beyond -- orders of magnitude beyond -- those that Palestine has, one is able to place Israel and Palestine on the two ends of a perfectly-balanced teeter-totter board -- and in that context, Ruth is right in condemning Hamas.

However, that's an imaginary context.

Israel has been the leader in the area for decades. Having taken that role by both force and violent defense, and maintained its survival and sovereignity therewith, Israel can now face the fact that it has, over decades, ghettoized Palestine. Israel can grow up and admit that if anyone is to lead to peace, Israel has taken the premier place in the region, and it is its responsibility to put its foot forward on the path, and keep to the path, with as much strength and focus as it has used to defend itself in the past.

"...just because Israel is big and powerful doesn't mean it is not scrared sheetless when it comes to opening itself up to the ghost of their past."

-- this is the problem for Israel, as far as I can see.

Only when Israel can put its ghosts aside and live in the present, can it stop overacting and lead.

If the US can begin to do this, as we have in this election year, so can Israel.

Gotham, I'm wondering if Israel didn't deliberately use this moment when heads were turned towards Pakistan/Indian tensions, to launch its offensive, and likewise, if Hamas didn't feel pretty secure in harassing Israel because those heads were turned. TOI and Deccan Herald had stories yesterday about Ahmedinejad going to Delhi, with a possible trip to Islamabad to follow. His head is turned -- or is it he's reluctant to step into the Israel-Hamas conflict, and is using India/Pakistan to deflect interest about his non-involvement on that front?

Young Turks broadcast on YouTube about the Gaza conflict:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyaBWyNFZfA

Fair, balanced, more factual than most stuff in US media.

Now why did we give the Jews this particular region of the world after world war 2, instead of putting them in Africa or Texas, especially if this was a secularly achieved decision?!?

Why do the Palestinians have to pay for the sins of Hitler's (a brunette :) :) ) Nazi government, and Russia's pogroms, and the Spaniard's inquisitions, and . . .

And I know the Diaspora was a terrible thing, but it sure did give the Jewish peoples a unique position to be the middlemen between differing civilizations; contrarily, it is pretty weird that at the beginning of time YHWH chose to curse the Canaanites.

But then again it is kind of weird God created evil, ummm, o, wait, his greatest angel Lucifer chose to be evil, but then again did not God still create Lucifer knowing Satan would choose to be evil!

Or did God simply give Lucifer a craving to be evil that Lucifer was supposed to choose not to succumb too, much like how Rick Warren says he constantly battles the urge to screw every women he sees, and how homosexuals’ should battle their biological urge to be gay.

Well at least all rich people are virtually guaranteed to go to Hell, o, but wait, wealth is a sign of God’s favor . . .

Well, since we can justify murder, revolution, obeying unjust governments, not returning evil for evil, returning evil for evil; dang, we can justify pretty much anything we want using Scripture!

Seems to have worked out pretty well so far, for the “Lockean” man anyway . . .

Hmmmm . . ., yeah . . .

Well those property and money lovers will one day get theirs, o, wait, we just gave them 700 billion more dollars; but they always want more don’t they!

Heyyyy, that is not cool . . .

Peace

hi everyone,

hi heath, you write, "By overlooking that Israel has money, equipment, labor, supplies, water control, infrastructure, power (both political and energy-wise), and in-place and working social, governmental and political organizations far beyond -- orders of magnitude beyond -- those that Palestine has, one is able to place Israel and Palestine on the two ends of a perfectly-balanced teeter-totter board -- and in that context, Ruth is right in condemning Hamas.

However, that's an imaginary context"

I think what is being overlooked in the above "imaginary context" is the fact that the Palestinians have received billions over the years in aid monies that they have pocketed for their "rocket launching" militant brigades in favor of serving the needs of their citizens. They have also used their billions in nurturing the "sacrifical lamb" martyrdom brigades instead of serving the needs of their citizens....this has been going on for years and years, after, every crisis with Israel the aid starts to flow, once again, but, somehow, it never makes it to the pockets of their citizens.

also you write "Israel can now face the fact that it has, over decades, ghettoized Palestine."...........imo, this has not happened without the help of the Palestinian leadership throughout the years and their absolute dedication to corruption in favor of the well-being and caring for needs of their citizens.

"Israel can grow up and admit that if anyone is to lead to peace, Israel has taken the premier place in the region, and it is its responsibility to put its foot forward on the path, and keep to the path, with as much strength and focus as it has used to defend itself in the past."................ imo, I would insist no less from the Palestinians, no less...

as you can see, from my "imaginary standpoint" they are equal in fault, in everyway, in keeping this conflict alive and well and deadly. As far as I can see "the Israel is bigger, better, richer," whatever, and, therefore, they should act this way, do that, or not do this, simply enables Hamas, justfies, their perspective to continue in their "sarificial lamb martyrdom" song and dance while racking in billions and keeping their citizens in a ghetto they help Israel to sustain, afterall, it's a behavior that pays in monies and martyrs..

Hamas is an ant compared with Israel's elephant. Palestine has had billions? How many billions in how many years? Meaning, how many million a year? How does whatever they've received compare with Israel's economy and resources?

Israel is taking just as much of a poor-me position as Hamas is, like this: Ah, poor me, look what happened seventy years ago, ah yes, it justifies whatever we're doing now, we're entitled to most of the good land and water in the area, it's OK that we displaced and continue to displace indigenous populations, they're not as entitled as we are, they didn't live here first (which isn't true, btw, since Arabs and Jews are related to each other going back thousands of years, per y-DNA results, and even intermarried over the subsequent centuries, mitochodrial DNA studies, as well -- "...studies that take into account mtDNA show that many Jewish populations are related to neighboring non-Jewish groups maternally..." -- http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html -- or click my name).

There are ecological and anthropological realities that are the underlying basis for the rest of the non-Muslim world thinking badly of Israel's actions right now. It's not all about religion. People want others to be fair, to others, and to themselves. Humanity can sense when things aren't fair, pretty well. There needs to be a divvy-up of the good things in this region. For example, the region is now overpopulated, and what water resources there are becoming more and more salinized, due to too-heavy drawing off, which outpaces rain replenishment.

That you continue to fight for Israel's position makes sense only in an emotional context.

I won't argue this any more, because our motives for arguing are so disparate.

Be well and happy.

I personally hope that Israel very soon comes to realize that they're doing themselves a whole lot of harm, that they bring their actions to a point of fairness, and that they begin to use their power and resources in a way that benefits the region as a whole.

Heath.....Your analogy of Ant and elephant for Hamas and Israel is not right.

Even if we think that way...........why hold the elephant to ransom because of his size and force him to tolerate antbites. The ant must know biting an elephant is dangerous.
It is not about what happened 70 years ago......but what is happening now.......How many times have you seen Israeli suicide bombers blowing up women and children.

Terrorists outfits like Hamas are constantly targetting innocent civilians, which is grossly unacceptable. Terrorism cannot become the means to achieve any objective and the civilized world must strongly endeavor to make sure this fact is comprehended by people like Hamas.

hi heath,

Your position on Israel is quite the popular viewpoint, for many, but, it is one, I simply do not agree with.

The ant and the elephant comparison I also disagree with, I see two elephants.

you write, "That you continue to fight for Israel's position makes sense only in an emotional context"........

I am very comfortable with my perspective of the situation, and, really, I am not arguing from an emotional standpoint, I, would say, your argument, along, with Gotham's, comes, more, from the emotions, than mine. You both are upset at what you call Israel's "overkill," "overreacting," to what you describe as an itty bitty disturbance for them, while I am saying...it is not so much about Israel's reaction as it is about the perpetrators decision to callusly put their own people's lives under needless fire repeatedly even though it gets them nowhere....

As far as I am concerned, Hamas, and other militant extremist organizations, like them, have betrayed their people, and bring more harm and cause more sufferings for their own people.

I do not give Israel a free pass, the situation, as it stands, now, allows both to continue to play this sick game...Gotham, is right, about the Palestinians needing a leader, they suffer from bad leadership, the right leader could stand his ground when it comes to Israel and the world community would support that leader, but he must recognize Israel's right to exist.

oh well, I do not expect this situation to change anytime soon.....but your reaction to my argument tells me that if the world community stopped handing the crying towel to Hamas they might get the message that the world is tired of them using their own citizens a sacrificial lambs and that they would be better of changing their tactics..

wishing you a happy and healthy new year, Heath....ruth

Dear Ruth

I held back from responding because I said I wouldn't argue this anymore. I think personal emotions are having a strong sway on your position, and I can't argue with your emotions, you're entitled to feel what you feel.

But I'm responding to your implying that my arguments are popularly-driven, personally emotional, and wrongheaded strategically, by sharing this link to a Bloggingheads video that discusses the wisdom of Israel's strategy:

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/16765?in=06:05&out=13:28

(or click my name)

If you watch the video, you'll see that neither of these two people -- both of whom have a much deeper understanding of what's going on that you and I do, as they take different sides of the argument -- view Hamas as an elephant on Israel's scale, and that's an important point. If you assign too much weight to the enemy, you endow it with a magical power over yourself which will lead you to respond too strongly, i.e., inappropriately. And this is what I think Israel is doing. And it's based on an emotional response grounded in historical remembrance of past wrongs, and often those wrongs were carried out by those other than Palestinians. This kind of response was once excusable, because the past was so close. The past is fading, because it hasn't repeated itself, because many -- not only Jews -- fight daily against a repeat of that kind of past. Thus now this kind of response is inexcusable, imo.

But what's really most interesting to me about this video discussion is how it illustrates two people taking strong positions, yet their personal, political or religious emotions aren't coming to the fore.

When I look at what Israel is doing, I'm is frustrated -- and strongly so. I feel as if I'm watching a dear cousin who was a supposedly cured alcoholic take to drinking again, and, by so doing, break pretensions and vows of sobriety and faith to himself and his loved ones. I care that people do things right and fairly. I don't have an emotionality that's personally-, politically- nor religiously-based. But I do have an ethical response. Ethics are innate to humanity. Humanity as a whole takes a general position on ethics which inclines it to fairness and compassion, above all. If it didn't, we'd have killed each other off long ago. And I'm in line with that.

I took this position before I had a sense of what others were thinking about it. I don't watch TV these days; I read articles from three or more newspapers online each day, for my news; I don't write my thoughts until I have what seems to me to be a decent understanding of whatever facts are being published in those sources. I think the reason that Israel is -- openly, for the first time -- not getting much of a free pass on this action in the West is that many people have the same sense of innate unfairness and strategic stupidity about Israel's actions that I do. In other words, if my stance is popular, it's because others have reacted in the same way that I have -- they too are having an innate ethical response, which motivates them to condemn Israel's action. And isn't a reaction like that the same one that promotes global condemnation of US's actions in Iraq?

Dear Amit

Your views, both past and present, that you've shared on IB, are biased by resentments based on past injustices meted out by groups of Muslims towards those of other religions and ethnicities.

While I deplore unfairness wherever it exists, for whatever reason, I also strive very hard not it let others' past actions taint my reading of any current situation. History gives us context for understanding the past and how we got to the present, but it offers zero solutions. If history had solutions, the present situations that we dislike so much wouldn't exist.

When an elephant steps on some ants to stop them from annoying it, it kills many who weren't annoying it, and most often misses those that were. Its move is ineffective, strategically, and personally motivated, not a solution that will suit ants and elephants equally and constructively. We share this planet with those who annoy us, as well as with those who please us. It is the epitome of civilized thought and behavior, to find ways to moderate annoyances without hurting others, in part by learning to recognize our own personal reactions as invalid when they are.

The issue between Israel and Palestine, at this point, is an ethical one, and I fully believe Israel is acting wrongly right now. And I think by so doing, they are proving themselves to be politically inept, at this moment in time.

Let me ask you: what would be the response in Israel if a Hamas rocket had killed an Israeli elected official, his wife, a sister, and two of his four children? A very big hue and cry, hai na? But when the same happens to a senior Hamas official, two of his wives and two of his four children, many big news sources don't even bother to report it. This is because Palestine is seen as relatively powerless by much of the rest of the world, and its citizens' lives are seen as less valuable than those of Israel. And I think that unfair distinction is the reason that Israel allows itself this unfair military action. This is purely, simply, wrong.

love, h

Dear Heath,

I feel it is your views which are biased towards a society which beleives in terrorism as a means to an end.

Why is the elected official in Palestine smuggling rockets instead of food and medicine????

Why is the elected official in Palestine breeding suicide bombers???

Why is the elected official in Palestine firing rockets on to innocent civilians 24x7x365???

I feel the only way to stop this global menace of terrorism, bombings, hijacs etc is to deal with them as firmly and as ruthlessly as possible minimising collateral.

How else do you want to treat a society which does not deplore killing of civilians by their elected representatives.

Palestenian leadership has been constantly breeding hate against jews and Israel. Take a look at their speeches since last 30 years. Their intent is very clear in what they preach, rest is just a matter of their destructive capacity.

regards

Amit

Why are the elected officials in Washington D.C. selling weapons to the entire world?

Why are the elected officials in Washington D.C. breedng suicide bombers worldwide?

Why do the elected officials in Washington D.C. drop bombs on weddings, on children, on innocents . . .

Justin Raimondo

Hi Empyrius,

It seems you consider selling of weapons a crime and probably firing rockets on civilians as an holy act.

I do not know what is the basis of your thought process. But consider this, the leadrship of palestine is breeding hate and preaching destruction of jews and Israel. Young children are bainwashed into becoming suicide bombers. This cannot be allowed to go on infinetly.

There are peaceful ways of achieving everytyhing that can be achieved. And hatred begets hatred. A rocket fired is bound to beget 10 in return.

How many non-muslims can be brainwashed to become suicide bombers....the answer is zilch. What is that allows people like Hamas and Islamic Jehad to sow and reap the seeds of hatred and terror.

My heart goes out for the young children who have to go through such a nightmarish ordeal and live in constant fear. Just because they are born in to a society which has become a breeding ground for evil. Wish there comes a sane leadership within the palestenian state and stops breeding hatred and terrorists.

I feel the palestenian people have fallen prey to the radical and fundamuntalist terror mongers and hate breeders.

Even the surrounding Arab countries are more interested in destruction of Israel rather than development of Gaza.

regards

Amit

Dude. Kill them. Whatever. I'm not taking any lives that is for damn sure!

Tis all according to the divine plan brother man.

Peace

#27 Quite agree, Craig, we are the divine plan! but see how the protagonists in this thread are firing gentle rockets at one another and the stress behind those stances which contributes to the dying of us all. What is time?

One is not at peace when pontificating. When one is not at peace, one is actually reinforcing/reflecting the aura of conflict wherever it may be. (Shut up, Ed!)

Peace brother, I can't stress this more strongly!

Amen to that Ed.

Methinks I stand condemned.

Peace

Open voices defuse violent conflict.

All things are possible, Heath ;)

Open voices defuse violent conflict.

hi heath,

you write, "I held back from responding because I said I wouldn't argue this anymore. I think personal emotions are having a strong sway on your position, and I can't argue with your emotions, you're entitled to feel what you feel.

But I'm responding to your implying that my arguments are popularly-driven, personally emotional, and wrongheaded strategically, by sharing this link to a Bloggingheads video that discusses the wisdom of Israel's strategy""

Heath, again, my personal emotions have nothing to do with my perspective on the fact that Hamas is supposed to be the leader for their citizens, supposed to protect, care, and, provide, for their needs, but the bald face truth is that they do not do this....what, in reality, do they do? They spend their energy "launching rockets" into Israeli territory causing a backlash on the innocent citizens under Hamas leadership. This happens repeatedly, and who ends up suffering the most because of the decisions Hamas is making...their own citizens....so, frankly....with leaders like Hamas who the heck needs an enemy???? It is just plain sadistic behavior......

I said your opinion was the more popular because it is as far as seeing the elephant in Israel and the ant in Hamas.

Listen, if, there were, in reality, an ant and and elephant comparison, this confict would be long over, dead, done, finished, by now....there is no ant....Hamas is an elephant......that even there own, more moderate, Palestinians cannot control.

Israel's is defending itself, it's people, against attacks by Hamas, which, by the way, are getting more dangerous, not less, with rockets able to reach farther inside it's borders.

Hamas, on the other hand, just keeps putting it's people in the line of Israel fire. Hamas, in every sense of the word, actually, begs, Israel to come after them, time and time again....and who suffers the greatest? The citizens' under the care of Hamas. This is cruel, sadistic, behavior and completely unnecessary, proven to be useless.

again, with leaders like Hamas who needs an enemy?

The world would be much better off dealing with the sadistic behavior of the Hamas leadership towards it' own citizens before it dares to call Israel on it's ethics....

really, I do not think I can clarify my position anymore than this....so, this is my story and I am sticking to it...

Hamas you are under arrest for.....begging Israel, with your continued rocket launghings, to bomb your citizens.....once again.....it is time to set your people free from your sadistic leadership!!!!

have a great day, heath.....ruth

it is a simple and none to sweet an anaylsis but I think it holds water...as far as a beginning point in solving this conflict....

The barbaric and wanton massacre of the Palestinians in Gaza which started some days ago and is now still continuing is yet another example of the blatant war crimes committed by Zionist Israel since its establishment in 1948.

Supported and encouraged by the United States and Britain, Israel has ignored international condemnation and insists that she has the unfettered right to murder innocent men, women and children on account of some rocket attacks by Palestinians who were retaliating against the blockade of Gaza. The blockade over the last 9 months has brought starvation and untold suffering to the Palestinians. The heroic Palestinian people have every right to take action in self-defence to break this inhuman siege.

The United Nations has condemned this attempt to starve and deny the medical needs of the Palestinians in order to force them into submission, but as usual, Israel backed by the United States has ignored international opinion and international law.

The peace loving peoples of the world must not just sympathise with the Palestinians but must take concrete action to bring the war criminals to justice.

For various reasons Governments will not do anything to put a stop to Israeli intransigence. It remains for the people to take positive action individually or through their Non-Governmental Organisations (NGO).

We propose that the peoples of the world boycott Israeli products and stop all trade with Israel.

Secondly we call upon the international community to abandon the use of the US Dollar in international trade, and to stop buying United States' bonds. Such purchases have enabled the United States to grant substantial aid to Israel and to supply it with the weapons now being used against the people in Gaza and elsewhere. The concerned peace loving peoples of the world must not, even if it is in a small way, be the participants and financiers in the massacre of the Palestinians, the Iraqis and the Afghans.

Finally we call upon the United Nations General Assembly to condemn Israel the same way that the Security Council condemns Darfur, Rwanda and Burundi and to set up a Tribunal to try Israeli war criminals.

http://www.chedet.cc/

"Finally we call upon the United Nations General Assembly to condemn Hamas for the sadistic leadership against it's own citizens the same way that the Security Council condemns Darfur, Rwanda and Burundi and to set up a Tribunal to try Hamas war criminals"

The barbaric and wanton massacre of the Palestinians in Gaza which started some days ago and is now still continuing is yet another example of the blatant sadistic leadership committed by Hamas against it own citizens!

sorry, but a more correct perspective is long overdue this conflict.