The Asymmetric Israel-Palestine Conflict (Updated) : IntentBlog

Love and death

Sick and weak
We are becoming

This life of love
Served for the last time
On this plate of last souvenirs

It remains only a few moments
And I am wondering
What kind of love was I built from?

A taste in my mouth, strange
Tongue getting too big to play words

I thought my ears and my eyes closed
Waiting for nothing else than blind-silence

But...

Falling I was, into an inner-place
Hided from my living-experiences
Right under the dying-platform of false-love

Fool!

In a flash of subtil-Inspiration
A wild and charming lady horse-riding
Right next to a city of easy-lamentations

Fool!

You don't kill, so you are dying

Such horrible words were flowing my mind without any rejections or contradictions

Dark fool!

Take this sword
You, lover
Open-sharp your self-vision

Death is coming right after true-love
This first fight, you have to master it

True-love cannot flow without a path to materialization
Your demon-self is blocking the process

Stand up or sit down
Be White-wolf now
Be conscious of your illusionary-fool...

1. Posted by Jean-François on January 3, 2009 06:53 PM

Dear DK,

Nanak said, "Chinta ta ki kijie je anhoni hoe (sayth Nanak, we need to worry only if what is happening is out of the ordinary."

Translated into my own language it will be "We need to worry only if what is happening is out of the pale of One's vision-in-action, that is, out of the pale of One's evolutionary scheme of things displaying itself through four basic interactions everywhere, at every heirarchical cycle level."

Because understood deeply it is all for the greater good. As Rumi in effect said in his poem, "what I lost by dying as a mineral, when actually I became a plant thanks to it, what I lost by dying as a plant, when actually I rose to become an animal thanks to it...then to man, to angels and eventually to merge into the One..."

So what is really happening through Israel-Palestine conflict is something old is dying to give birth to something new, compatible with the coming times....

Harb

2. Posted by Harb on January 3, 2009 07:28 PM

ahhh… I think my lifetime will be over and we will still be hoping that the Israelis and Palestinians will make peace. Maybe it wouldn’t take so long if the two sides tried to change their set beliefs and conditioning about this painful conflict. It is always more moral to take the side of the suffering, no matter who that is, but it is also necessary to be devoted to principles and to honor one’s word. Yes, the Palestinians are suffering, the Israelis are too, in a different sense. Israel did not keep its word, it does this often but the Palestinians are guilty of the same. So we have a relationship here like a husband and wife who completely hate each other but have no choice but to live in the same house. A divorce is not possible, one side is weaker physically and financially. It allows its partner to bully it and control it, but tries to regain some dignity by sabotaging the other’s well being. What can be done in this situation? Can these people trust each other ever again? Can they manage to keep their word?

Now imagine that the situation is actually even more complicated. The couple has many children whom they’ve divided amongst themselves. One of the parents is not able to control all of its children. Even when the parent, the decision maker, has made an agreement with the other side, the children act with disloyalty and take their own decisions to disrupt the agreement between the two parties.

I am not sure that this is the case with Hamas, but I would assume so. I dont think anyone, after making a cease-fire with Israel would allow a few militants to ruin the entire process. We see today what this has resulted to, the Israelis want vengeance and are willing to do everything. Its a matter of pride, of principle.

Yes, the Palestinians are suffering, the common people who are not related to all of this are suffering, they are dying or starving or forever being psychologically wounded by this destruction. It is not their fault, it is the fault of their leadership who does not care for them enough to demand and make sure that they control all of their factions, no matter how small, to make sure that they abide by what they have decided to do.

Why would anyone want to support an independent Palestine, if the Palestinians are not able to show unity and strength? This is their greater weakness, the factionalism, the lack of control, a poweful, yet honest and just leadership.

I was arguing with someone that although terrorism can have no justification, the reasons for why Palestinians for example resort to it must be abolished with the help of the international community. But I was reminded that this is not entirely right.

Terrorism which is purely tactics, is not an honorable and right way to fight for justice. It will also never be successful in achieving its goals because a goal such as freedom and independence cannot be achieved without the masses. A few guys sending rockets into Southern Israel is not going to give Gaza or the West Bank the freedom that it so desparately wants.

I think the Palestinians should fight for their rights, for the land which has been accepted to be theirs by international law. But they should do this with dignity, they should unite and fight together. No more stupid tactics which prevent peace that probably wasnt honestly negotiated in the first place.

You might say, well there is no way they will win that war, they have nothing, Israel has everything, people, military capacity, equipment, the support of the United States. What does the Palestinians have? Perhaps they have nothing, but there have been plenty of nations in the world who have fought for their independence- with exactly that- nothing and have won.

If only the Palestinians believed in themselves and chose to fight honestly, I think this story would have a very different ending than where it is heading today. A terrorist will always be called a terrorist. A person fighting for his freedom and rights within the moral and ethical rules of warfare, will be regarded completely different. Don’t tell me that the Israelis are not fighting within these rules either. It may be so. But you cannot change the Israelis, you cannot change that they want this land for themselves, that they want to establish their security at all costs. You can only change yourself and how you see things and that may be all that is necessary to win.

3. Posted by Burcidi on January 3, 2009 07:56 PM

I'm a newcomer to the blog world - happened on this in passing and took the time to register as it is a topic of personal passion....

I see a lot of anguished compassion in the posts on the Israel-Palestine issue, but no positions of substance? Where do you stand? If anywhere...

How difficult is it to take a stand on the creation of a state on the basis of a "holy book"? And how difficult is it to anticipate a hostile reaction to this creation, based on other "holy" books? Not to mention objection based purely on common sense....

So now.....having created this state in the throes of the aftermath of WWII and the end of colonialism, what are we to do?

First: stop taking the attitude of RIGHT vs. WRONG. Given the history and the damage done, there IS no right and wrong, anymore. There was once - in 1948 - when things could have been done right, but not anymore. So - stop the moral posturing and get to the practicality of things on the ground. There WILL be two states - Israel and Palestine. Let that sink in & base all actions on this fact.

Have more (much more) to say, but will hold off for now, with this one link:
Uri Avnery:
http://avnery-news.co.il/english/index.html
One man with a clear vision....

4. Posted by vc on January 3, 2009 10:31 PM

Dear Friends -- Jean-Francois, Harb, Burcidi and VC --

Thank you for your insightful thoughts, observations and views.

It is useful to gather alternative perspectives and distilled wisdom with humility.

The Socratic dialogue underway in this regard is worth noting at:

. Holistic Quantum Relativity: http://tinyurl.com/HolisticQR
. IntentBlog: http://www.intentblog.com
. Intent: http://tinyurl.com/Intent0401
. LinkedIn: http://tinyurl.com/mi2g0401
. Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/ATCA0401

Thanks

DK

5. Posted by DK_Matai on January 4, 2009 01:19 AM

Dear DK,

The conflict between Israel and Palestine has been going on now for already as long as I can remember.

When you look at the problem from a more global point of view, then to me it is certain that the last sentence of Harb´s comment #2:

´So what is really happening through Israel-Palestine conflict is something old is dying to give birth to something new, compatible with the coming times....´

is already on the verge of being realized.

As long as Israel believes it is backed up by the ´majority´ of governments and political opinion makers in the world, it will go on acting like this.

As long as Palestine believes they are standing alone in this conflict, they will go on acting like this.

There is already a slight switch of opinion happening.

For the first time I notice that there are more governments and journalists inclined to openly take the side of the Palestinians.

Perhaps if more countries, all over the world would back up the Palestinians, it may make Israel more conscious of the fact that it will have to change its view about itself.

Perhaps then it may be inclined to really switch to a constructive solution.

This is a first step towards taking a kind of democratic worldly solution to this problem, something that may in future perhaps become more common.

Just as a majority of countries in Europe makes democratic decisions for the whole European Union, it is the responsibility of ALL countries in the world to come up with a real solution, suitable for both parties in this conflict.

7. Posted by heartphone on January 4, 2009 03:04 AM

Also a good discussion here:
The Agonist http://agonist.org/
Israel goes for regime change in Gaza
http://agonist.org/stirling_newberry/20090103/israel_goes_for_regime_change_in_gaza

8. Posted by yogi-one on January 4, 2009 03:11 AM

Intermarriages between Palestinians and Israelis would be the answer.

9. Posted by Jane on January 4, 2009 08:19 AM

Hello DK and Everyone,

In todays washingtonpost.com there is an article by a citizen of Gaza describing their experience and worry....I responded to the author in this way...

Hello Eyad,

It must be very difficult for you and your family to survive under these conditions.

I am curious, though, where the anger is for your leadership Hamas? Isn't it very pedictable that by Hamas continually launching their rockets into Israel that sooner or later a serious and deadly military attack will be launched, in response, and those who will suffer the greatest are innocent citizens like yourself and your family?

So, once again, Hamas has instigated a military response by Israel that will ultimately cause the greatest suffering to the citizens under Hamas's leadership, and, to top it off, this launching of rockets really gets Hamas and the citizens of Gaza nowhere and nothing, but the actual suffering and death of innocent people, yet, it is OKAY with you, you call it resistance?

Frankly, if I were a leader, the last thing I would do is repeat a useless, reckless antagonistic action towards my enemy, when, I know, for certain, that it would be my own citizens who will suffer the most because of it....I, as their leader, could never use my citizens as "sacrificial lambs" and call that resistance.

As, a leader, I would want the best for my citizens....not the worst, which by the way, it seem the citizens of GAZA, have, under their leaders, Hamas.

I, am sorry, but there is something very wrong with this picture and with the loyalty that the citizens of Gaza have toward a leadership that offers predictable and deadly military attacks as a way of life instead of food, shelter, health care, education, a peaceful future...

As, a leader, if I can launch a rocket, I can launch a negotiation, I can launch a compromise for the sake, and, well being, of my citizens. As a leader I can put the well being of my citizens at the forefront of my focus, and, the very last thing I could endure, would be, to know my repeated, useless, rocket launchings caused them needless suffering and death....

As, a leader, I could never betray my citizens loyalty in this way...

It is time for the people of Gaza to realize that it is not, in reality, Israel that hold you hostage it is your leadership.

Real leaders have the ability to change and grow do what is best for the welfare of their citizens they do not "resort to rocket launchings" year after year after year, and, call it, "resistance" when the folks who suffer the most are their own citizens....this is just plain sadistic behavior by any standards....

You and others in Gaza would do much better resisting the ways of your ineffectual leadership and find leaders that can stand their ground with Israel not with rocket launching but with "ideas, negotiations, compromises, with will, with integrity, and, most of all, with the desire to stop the sufferings of the citizens of Gaza....you have men and women who are capable of this kind of leadership....you should be seeking them out and you should be throwing out a leadership such as Hama who seems to only be able to use you and their citizens as their "sacrifical lambs" for years to come....

The rest of the world is not blinded to the ineffectual leadership that the Palestinians have and have had over the years, we can see the forest through the trees.

As long as the citizens are okay with being used as sacrifical lambs by their leaders, as long as they are willing lambs then there is nothing anyone can do for them they will be repeatedly, uselessly, recklessly abused by those leaders until they wake up and say enough.....

It is very difficult for many women who live under the abusive hand of a husband to set themselves free and realize that they deserve more...but they do it when they have had enough...I trust the Palestinian people, the citizens of Gaza will come to this realization sooner or later...

ruth

10. Posted by ruth on January 4, 2009 08:27 AM

The Hamas leadership are not on the side of Israel, obviously, and they are not on the side of the other Palestinians either so whose side are they on? Their own apparently. If they were on the side of the Palestinians they probably would not be firing rockets first, a purposeful attempt to create conflict, not resolve it. There are much more intelligent means for any group to bring attention to their issues and obtain fair and just resolution to their issues.

If you want to win in this game without causing anyone to lose, you need to be on everybody’s side.

The conflict is not between the average people of Israel and Palestine who are just like you and me the conflict is between the leadership and probably driven by profit and desire for control.

I would ask all the management of each party what exactly is it that you want?

Then I would ask them what is it that the people who are represented by their management want? I bet the common people would say “resolve the conflict.”

Then I would ask what is it that everyone actually needs?

Then an integrated solution is formed focusing on need not want, so that everyone is pleased with the outcome.

I would also state as a policy that we will be working and discussing in the present moment where we are defining the future. The past is not relevant and shall not be brought up in this process, in that it cannot be changed.

The other major factor is the small number of minds that are in positions of power. It is in these minds that the war exists and is then manifested outwardly for all; a small percentage that is invested in conflict because it GIVES THEM POWER. The people of Israel and the Palestinians are not at war with each other, the leadership and certain financial interests are. So something is seriously wrong here it probably has a lot more to do with money and power then most people realize. There is the matter of some nefarious agents and unscrupulous elements at work and they do need to be rendered impotent.

Having not been there and been directly affected by the trauma of death and fear I can understand that there are other valid emotional perspectives understandably, dramatically influenced by the experience of violence and loss, and understandable anger on both sides needing some sort of healing and a sense of justice for all. If even the healing is that those the death of loved ones and the strife endured resulted in the obtainment of a perpetually balanced equitable agreement and relationship between all parties such that children of the future could simply play without fear or want. If the conflict continues then all those that died on both sides did so in vain. If we want to honor the dead then we should, in their names, establish a peace. Peace is not a world without conflict but a world where conflict is quickly and amicably resolved with wisdom. Peace is a world where a few minds clouded by fiction and acting on fear or greed as a result of illusion cannot have an over bearing influence on the writing of the story. Peace is a world where the people in their lucid collective wisdom direct management in the job they must carry out.

We do not forgive our attackers for their benefit but for our own; that it benefits the forgiven is an additional benefit for all. To hold onto animosity and dwell on transgressions of the past is to steal from the present where we create our future.

11. Posted by Richard Thomas ∞Φ on January 4, 2009 08:39 AM

An interesting discussion is going on with Sharon Loucks (MississippiHippie) on Intent.com;

"Can we have form without illusion?"

12. Posted by Jean-François on January 4, 2009 01:39 PM

delusion
--------
A delusion is commonly defined as a fixed false belief and is used in everyday language to describe a belief that is either false, fanciful or derived from deception.

13. Posted by Jean-François on January 4, 2009 01:43 PM

Heresy
------
Heresy is an introduced change to some system of belief, especially a religion, that conflicts with the previously established canon of that belief.

14. Posted by Jean-François on January 4, 2009 01:46 PM

Now!

On your path, you will have to face "inquisitionist". There are repressionists, master-extremists.

Just be aware of them, right now.

Remember: Some will have to die from and with their fixed-points of beliefs. Please reconnect constantly with youself to avoid their influences on yourself.

They are already there and many more are coming from their false holiday-vacacions.

DK, don't you think that these endless conflicts are just feeding-world-tools for repression and constant derivation for mass control?

15. Posted by Jean-François on January 4, 2009 02:14 PM

Definitely defies any just war theory I have ever heard!

I suppose if one has the extra money to go see a movie to divert one’s attention you could watch the Nazi movie of the week to be reminded why this current invasion is “justified”. Let’s see, I heard Valkyrie sucks, but that handsome blond actor Daniel Craig stars in this week’s one, Defiance! I don’t know if a blond goy will be able to pull of playing a Jew though, the last one to do that was Paul Newman, o, wait, Newman was Jewish (Exodus was not a very good movie anyway, but it was a very good propagandas piece, and at the end Newman’s character said “one day Arabs and Jews will live in peace”!); obviously that day is not today! Well, uhhhh, maybe Chaplin in the Great Dictator played a pretty good Jewish part (but at the quite powerful ending his character went a little Hitler on us). Well maybe there is a good Sandler or Stiller movie out this week that does not deal with horrors of the past, always remember though . . .

I just can't wait until Native Americans rise up and rid the North American continent of all white, and white looking, people! Sure, the Indians will be outgunned on a, well, on a Palestinian scale, they'll obviously have to resort to terroristic tactics, but ya gotta root for the massively outgunned underdogs, that is the American Way!

Remember Wounded Knee!

pax vobiscum

16. Posted by empyrius on January 4, 2009 03:02 PM

NY Times analysis by Steven Lee Meyers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/weekinreview/04myers.html

- - -

There were always black swan-like events, but we called them crazy people and tragic situations. Now, there's more potential for black swans in nature, and in society (politics, finances, military, etc.). The increased potential comes from the overpopulation of the planet by humans, simultaneous with the flattening out of communications.

Communications are no longer the province of only the powerful. Any communications node can become a node of power without enormous funding or planning. Those with power can no longer monitor most nodes effectively. Thus, the ripples in stable patterns that have always happened, which are now more numerous simply because there are more people alive, are also less visible to those who want to impose their vision of how the world (country, province, region, state, alliance) should be run. The ripples appear to be black swans or asymmetric threats only because there's more potential for surprising people.

It's a math thing.

The solution is not to create new, bigger power nodes that will unflatten communications.

It is to dilute flat communications with a greater input of goodness, to offset the craziness. This will act like oil on water, flattening out the spikes in irregular patterning that can be interpreted as evil or dangerous.

- - -

This is the reason Israel's action is so very dangerous. There should have been an injection of goodness into the region, not an act of violent power expression. Israel's action may seem to be the major black swan here, but I think it was the 11/26 attacks. They got the world looking east, and both Hamas and Israel began to play as if the world were a smaller, less fraught place than it really is. This may have been one of the responses that LeT anticipated, at least in a very very general sense -- the destabilization of relations between those willing to compromise.

- - -

We've seen black swan-like behaviors at IB. What did not work was confrontation and battling. What did work was an injection of goodness, by way of dialogue, compromise, social learning, and finally, mutual tolerance, and even affection sometimes, which played out over time.

17. Posted by heath on January 4, 2009 04:58 PM

Let your soul stand cool and composed
before a million universes - From Walt Whitman's Song of Myself

I think when the things become too assymetric then they are really at the verge of making a paradigm shift, which though may not be that apparent at first.

18. Posted by Harb on January 4, 2009 10:11 PM

My last lines in #19 may be translated in simple punjabi axiom which DK you may well know already:"Rab da te att da ver hunda hai"

19. Posted by Harb on January 4, 2009 10:45 PM

Let your soul stand cool and composed
before a million catastrophes of this kind
in this shadowy universe

Even otherwise

your fears will haunt you,
incidents which can send you reeling
will encounter you
at each step
till this is achieved
for, this is your evolutionary goal

Harb

20. Posted by Harb on January 5, 2009 12:06 AM

Shame on Israel!
http://palestine-vs-israel.blogspot.com/

21. Posted by Shame on Israel! on January 5, 2009 08:24 PM

"Let your soul stand cool and composed
before a million catastrophes of this kind
in this shadowy universe

Even otherwise

your fears will haunt you,
incidents which can send you reeling
will encounter you
at each step
till this is achieved
for, this is your evolutionary goal

Harb"

Shame on Israel!